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Posts made by JointCracker
RE: What supplements can you take to restore the synovial fluid?
I promised to update this thread when I have done more experimenting with supplements. Better late than never.
For now almost 3 years, I have daily taken 2 x 1000mg pure MSM and 3 x 500mg green-lipped mussel capsules. I took care to choose a brand on the green-lipped capsules which has very little iodine so the regular iodine intake would be irrelevant.
Well, what can I say. MSM clearly had a positive effect on my skin, so I kept taking MSM. I believe the green-lipped mussels do help my joints in a way that I can quicker recoup from a bad joint cracking day.
Both supplements are very affordable and do more good than harm so I kept taking them till this day.
RE: Why would a Joint Stop Cracking
Rebuild the joints ligaments? Unnatural Hypermobility?
Your saying: be less mobile w the joint so the ligament becomes LESS flexible and more stiff.
That would seem counter productive and a recipe for injury:
when a stiff or tight ligament is pushed past its normal ROM it will sprain and inflame and Hurt.
Increased ROM/mobility is a good thing.
Hyperflexability is a good thing
Joints can be hyperflexible and strong
Not mobilizing joints will make them weak and tight and injury prone.
The video is indeed interesting. However, I do not agree this level of hypermobility is healthy.
I did not mean that you should aim for stiff joints, which is clearly unhealthy, too. "Hypermobility" by its very name implies the mobility is "above" normal. I would thus personally aim for "normal" mobility.
Last time I checked hypermobile joints are not healthy, also see What Are Hypermobile Joints?
RE: Unable to crack
I'm the same. I can barely get my knuckles to crack nowadays. Shame.
Interesting, I wonder how this can be explained. Does the desire to crack the joint also pa* s with the ability to crack it? Or do you still feel the discomfort and are now unable to release it? I assume the ability to crack your knuckles has decreased slowly over time because you also reduced the amount of cracking you did? I can't imagine losing the ability to click a joint as long as you keep up doing it?
This comes back down to question, can you unlearn cracking a joint or learn a new joint to crack? Or are you either a joint popper or you are not due to genetical dispostion / hypermobility in your joints?
So either congratulations on successful unlearning are on order, or if you really want to crack your knuckles again, you should be able to relearn it.
RE: Relaunch celebrating our 10th anniversary
Finally, the relaunch is here!
Here is what you need to know as a returning fellow joint cracker:
- Please do request a new password by entering your email in Forgot Password?
- All accounts with zero posts have been dropped. If you have been dropped, please register again!
- We are finally mobile friendly
- All topics, posts and signatures are migrated
- All private messages are migrated into the chat system
- All old polls are turned into images, new polls do not work just yet
- Posts are now written in Markdown syntax instead of BBCode
- Avatars were not migrated. If you like, please do upload a new 128x128 profile image in your profile settings
- SPAM protection is much more modern
- We are now using SSL encryption for better privacy and security
- Much better SEO properties. The old phpbb software created tons of duplicate links which will take a while for the search engine crawlers to unlearn
- In any case let me know what you think! What is great, what is bad, what do you miss?
RE: Relaunch celebrating our 10th anniversary
Data migration was finally successful today. I now "only" need to configure the new software and install it on our new host.
If all goes really well, the relaunch might happen as early as this weekend.
Please refrain from posting until we have relaunched, or your post will likely be lost.
Relaunch celebrating our 10th anniversary
Hard to believe, this January we are celebrating our 10th anniversary!
Over the holiday season, I have investigated our upgrade options to move forward. I have finally settled on a very new and exciting platform!
Thank you for participating in the polls. I heard you!
I have shuffled a few things around to ease migration to this upcoming, much more modern bulletin board system.
The critical migration blockers are already out of the way. There are of course still a number of todos, which will probably take a few weeks. I will work on this as time permits.
Moved host again, relaunch planned
Due to tragic circumstances our old hoster was closing shop. RIP Gurpreet Virdi!
We are now running on our new host, which has better production PHP settings, so our legacy site can again run smoothly for a while longer. I am now finally starting work on a relaunch on a modern CMS platform.
RE: Chronic Pain and Stiffness on One side of body
I have the same issue for years now..primarily on the right side, but it will also migrate to the left side..but when it does the urge OTC rack on the right side disappears. So the constant and increasingly maddening urge to crack only happens on one side at a time. I might only have a day of relief but then the whole things starts up again out of nowhere. There are people who post here who seem to enjoy the sensation. I find it depressing and disruptive, and frustrating that I haven't been able to find any answers to this. I am healty, have been tested for lupus, rheumatoid, and lymes…I had lymes over 15 years ago, and was treated..so I don't know if this is connected somehow. I tested negative for the other conditions. I think I eat healthy, but now am looking into supplements. Glucosamine produced no results for me. I exercise regularly and do yoga, but nothing seems to alleviate this. It's not painful, it just maddening because as soon as I crack, the urge to do it again is right back.mthis goes on from morning until night, and I find it hard to sleep because I can't get comfortable. I came and sounds like other people experience what I do, so I guess it's good to know I'm not the only one.
Elle, thanks for sharing your story. I can very much relate to your experiences, you are definitely not alone. I also find this highly annoying and disruptive. It is very iteresting that in some cases symptoms only affect one side of the body. This has never been the case for me, always symmetric on my end. I document the stuff which helps me, in here. Please share when you find help for you.
I found an interesting post today:
I've been trying to find a solution to similar issues – cracking joints all the time, including my jaw, toes, neck, back, etc, getting worse as aching and painful movement, weakness.
I posted to a list I'm on and someone suggested oxalate sensitivity. Apparently oxalates can build up in the tissues and cause all kinds of problems. I've only been experimenting for a bit over a week but it seems highly connected so far. When I keep a low oxalate diet along with supplements, I feel much better, and I tested the reverse on a camping trip and felt worse again. So far the K2 has been the most helpful, but only with some of the other things too. Sometimes the K2 has completely taken away my joint pain within minutes, other times (I think when I didn't take magnesium perhaps) it helps a little over a couple days (I'm up to 300-500 mcg using Thorne K2/D3 drops but am switching to the 1mg drops without D3 soon).
Here's what I came up with for my own personal plan:
Not too much Vitamin D or Vitamin C, or fish oil (can't remember why)
Drop milk thistle (and turmeric if taking it) as it's very high oxalate
increase Magnesium (switch from glycinate to citrate),
slowly Add Thorne Vitamin K2
Add Thiamine and B6 as enyme co-factors
Take a little Calcium citrate with meals or have dairy with any oxalate
Take probiotics (I'll start with homemade kefir)
Drink lots of water to help the liver excrete it
Don't remove oxalate all at once, take out very high sources first, because too low causes dumping
Dumping isn't uncommon -- take the supplements to help
Thyroid can be involved in oxalates (I'm on Armour), so watch this
mercury can be involved with oxalate issues (I have cell-resident mercury/lead)
The main things I had been eating that I eliminated were almost all nuts/seeds and nut/seed butters/oils, quinoa, almond flour, rhubarb, chard, most wheat, and most chocolate. When I first started researching oxalates because my pain was intense, I realized I had eaten almost all of these -- including the rhubarb -- in one day!
I'd be very curious if anyone else tries this, to hear how you do.
I am not sure if this can be the cause for joint cracking pressures without visible kidney stones, maybe there are slight oxolate sensitivities with various conditions?
What do you think?
Cyclic Citrullinated Peptide Antibody
A cyclic citrullinated peptide (CCP) antibody test may be ordered along with or following a rheumatoid factor (RF) test to help diagnose rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and to assess the severity and probable course of the disease (prognosis). CCP antibody may also be ordered to help evaluate the likely development of RA in people with undifferentiated arthritis those whose symptoms suggest but do not yet meet the American College of Rheumatology (ACR) criteria for RA. According to ACR, approximately 95% of those with a positive CCP antibody will meet the criteria of RA in the future.
Rheumatoid arthritis without inflammation
According to various sources like this one you can have rheumatoid arthritis without any indication of inflammation.
Yes, it's possible to have RA and normal inflammatory markers. It's also possible to have RA without swelling.
corroborated by this source
To answer your question yes it is possible to have that kind of pain with out inflammation.I will aslo say this that many people test negative for for ra and other types of arthritis as well,but does not mean that you do not have it.
RE: Remember when?
I have noticed that my distals (sp?) are more prone to clicking than cracking in cold weather… Warm weather seams to almost void all distal and mid joint cracking...
By distal joints you probably mean the terminal limb bones located at the tip of the digits (i.e. fingers and toes)? Quite advanced joint lingua! Yes warmth clearly has a positive effect on joints. Come to think of it I don't think I do ever (or very rarely) crack my distal finger joints, I only crack my metacarpals.
RE: Remember when?
I have heard that about nutrition also. I also think there may be a colorization between what muscles you use and the joints cracking. I don't know… Thank you for helping me brainstorm!
There definitely is a correlation between exercise and cracking, see the Yoga thread. For example after a good jogging exercise my need to crack my ankles is clearly much less than before the run. And I don't constantly "click" during the run either.
RE: Remember when?
Yes, sometimes joints I crack easily and accidently don't crack at all under movements they normally do crack. So far I have failed to make a connection why this sometimes happens. I have long suspected a connection to my diet, maybe you can take control by the intake of supplements?
RE: What supplements can you take to restore the synovial fluid?
I did indeed read about these type of supplements before, thanks for bringing this up and reminding me about it! Your post inclined me to update my research on this.
Supplements to strengthen joints do usually include one or a combination of the following components:
- Glucosamine and chronroitin
- Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM)
- Vitamin B12
- Devils claw
- Green lipped sea mussel (Perna canalicula)
- Shark cartilage
- Vitamin E, niacinamide, …
On ehealthme.com the first (and so far only) patient of a self-made study said taking a mix of these supplements helped her "somewhat" with her issues.
Glucosamine and chondroitin
Some caution from November 2010:
While it is an interesting theory, oral consumption of glucosamine and chondroitin has not been shown to alter the availability of these cartilage building blocks inside an arthritic joint. It has not been shown that consumption of joint supplements increases the quantity of these cartilage building blocks within any joint.
and a little encouragment:
Ultimately, what patients should understand, is that glucosamine and chondroitin have shown encouraging evidence that these supplements can provide help with treating osteoarthritis. However, these studies have ranged from poor to satisfactory in quality, and in order to be accepted as an effective treatment for osteoarthritis, more research must be completed.
What is known, is that there are effective treatments for osteoarthritis that every patient should be using before considering these supplements. Specifically, recommendations for weight control, exercise, proper use of medications, and joint protection are known to minimize the progression and improve symptoms of osteoarthritis. These steps must be taken by all arthritis patients for optimal treatment to take place.
In November 2009:
There are a number of studies out there showing glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate supplementation helps reduce the progression of osteoarthritis and does not have any of the side effects that the medications for that condition has. To me, thats a significant plus when it comes to dealing with a condition that affects so many and has no known cure. The main things I tell my patients when theyre considering taking any supplement
make sure the supplement is high quality not all supplements are made the same.
The same site gives some hints from where to get your supplements:
The main thing you need to remember when purchasing a supplement is you want one thats from a reputable company with the least amount of man-made products.
Studies supposedly show the effectiveness of MSM:
Efficacy of methylsulfonyl-methane (MSM) in osteoarthritis pain of the knee: a pilot clinical trial. Osteoarthritis and Cartilage. (Study 2004) -
Compared to placebo, those taking MSM had statistically significant reductions in pain and in difficulty performing activities of daily living. Statistically significant reductions in serum homocysteine (a risk factor for cardiovascular disease) and urinary malondialdehyde (a marker of oxidative stress) were also observed. There were no significant adverse events in the study.
Kinda wide range of possible effects with MSM, hmmm.
MSM is considered safe and well-tolerated with side effects comparable to a placebo. Clinical trials have not been longterm, however, lasting just 12 weeks or less. Longterm safety studies are needed.
MSM is covered in quite a few books, is popular on youtube.com including online testemonials. Another good info site.
Supposedly MSM is an organic sulfor which you would normally digest with your diet in sufficient quantities, if you ate raw vegetables, which have been grown naturally with rain water. Nowadays most vegetables are grown in green houses, so you supposedly are prone to get a deficiency of MSM.
MSM supposedly has about the same toxicity as tap water, some even claim 10 times less. It supposedly de-toxifies your body. It supposedly makes cells more permeable, helps rebuild connective tissue, decreases inflammation associated with allergies, improves skin, hair and nails and even scar tissues.
Because there are few nerves in the bones, our pain comes from the soft tissue.
This all seems way too good to be true. :roll: To be sure the FDA has strict rules on this :
Cyber letters issued from CFSAN are to Internet Website Operators promoting dietary supplement products that claim to diagnose, mitigate, treat, cure, or prevent a specific disease or cla* s of diseases.
If this all were true, MSM could fix a system wide problem for me! I have had acne / skin breakouts all my life, I do have hay fever, my blood proves I am allergic to most foods which I do ignore given no choice and no known side-effects, I produce keloids instead of healthy scar tissue, I love to eat red meat with supposedly too little MSM intake, I have been annoyed by joint pressures all my life. This one supplement is supposed to help with all of these problems!? 8O Of course I won't believe any of this until I see and feel it.
When you do get MSM, make sure the brand you get at least pa* * * s the simple. Basically, the powder should sink and dissolve quickly in water. Any residue not dissolving points to unwanted inpurities, if you find them change brand.
Some manufactures say MSM won by distillation is inherently more pure than MSM won by crystallization.
The Arthritis Foundation's position paper on MSM notes that "because dietary supplements are not regulated by the Food and Drug Administration, there are concerns regarding product quality."
Of course there are also very critical voices on MSM. The following being undated:
MSM simply doesnt work. It just wont go away despite its total lack of effective-ness. This hoax started with the TV and movie actor James Coburn, who claimed MSM magic-ally cured his arthritis. Well, poor old James died and was still as crippled as ever. Chondroitin is another popular and widely sold hoax. There are published clinical studies proving chondroitin is not absorbed by our intestines. It must be injected to be of value. Unfortunately, medical doctors are too backward to offer chondroitin injections. MSM is not found in our bodies.
If MSM had real benefits there would be published clinical studies using real people. There arent. Why? Because it does not work, never did work, and never will work. Thats why.
MSM also made a listing on Quackwatch.org:
[…] Herschler, who is a research biochemist, holds eleven patents for MSM awarded between 1981 and 1996. Jacob, a longtime advocate of using DMSO for treating arthritis, holds one patent (awarded in 1996) and has co-authored a book called The Miracle of MSM.
Herschler's claims for MSM are not modest.
The "detailed discussion" section of the patent describes how more than a hundred patients were helped with a wide variety of health problems. But it provides no details about who administered the treatment, where and when it was done, whether an appropriate experimental protocol (randomization, blinding, controls, etc.) was used, and whether any report has been published. Herschler also states that MSM is "a preferred dietary source of sulfur" and that an intake of 0.5 to 1 mg/kg body weight per day is "desirable."
MSM marketers are making similar claims. One, for example, states that MSM can relieve stress and constipation; help heal Candida, asthma, emphysema, arthritis and tendinitis; reduce muscle cramps and back pain; increase stamina and relieve lactic acid buildup during workouts; detoxify and energize the body; increase blood circulation; strengthen capillary walls, healing varicose veins; help keep hormones in balance; relieve allergies to foods, drugs and environmental irritants; aid the liver in bile secretion and choline production; control stomach acidity while maintaining body's normal pH balance; coat and help heal intestinal walls; increase body's ability to produce insulin; aid carbohydrate metabolism; boost vitamin, mineral, amino acid, and antioxidant utilization; speed wound healing; help keep hair; and keep skin and nails healthy and beautiful. Another marketer states that the conditions that have responded to MSM include: acne; allergies; arthritis; asthma; Candida yeast infections; carpal tunnel syndrome; chronic fatigue; constipation; diabetes; digestive disorders; fragile hair and nails; migraine headaches; muscle pain and cramps; parasites; skin damage and aging; toxic build-up; and ulcers.
In living organisms, sulfur is found mainly in organic molecules. Humans obtain it by absorbing the sulfur-containing amino acids methionine, cysteine, and cystine. Thus it is automatically obtained by consuming adequate amounts of protein foods (meat, fish, poultry, eggs, milk, cheese, nuts, and legumes) and requires no separate consideration. Limited amounts are present in inorganic sulfates, sulfides, and thiamin; and sulfur is also a part of biotin and pantothenic acid. Although sulfur is considered to be an essential mineral, no dietary requirement for inorganic sulfur has been found and no Recommended Dietary Allowance or Estimated Safe and Adequate Daily Dietary Intake has been established for it. In fact, the 10th edition of Recommended Dietary Allowances does not discuss it.
Herschler's patent documents claim that "the average diet is deficient in methylsulfonylmethane because it is readily lost during conventional food processing, such as frying, dehydrating, dilution with synthetic fillers and other poorly nutritional additives, cooking, radiation or pasteurizing, and long-term storage". This statement is absurd, because the amount of sulfur in protein foods is not affected by processing. Since Americans tend to consume more protein than they need, "sulfur deficiency" is very unlikely and would not occur without obvious evidence of severe malnutrition. If it could occur, the remedy would be to eat adequate protein, not to supplement with MSM.
No published research studies link MSM to any of the health claims made by its marketers. Sulfur needed in human metabolism comes from dietary protein. MSM supplements probably make little or no contribution to the body's sulfur requirements. Thus there is no good reason to use MSM supplements.
Looks like a popular get-rich-quick-scheme: Sell your patented product to gullible but desperate people by promising your product will fix all their problems, betting on the placebo effect in humans…
Vitamin B12 deficiency does not cause arthritis but may worsen anemia in patients with rheumatoid arthritis or RA.
As a modern, popular dietary supplement, devil's claw is used to treat degenerative joint diseases (like osteoarthritis), low back pain, and to aid digestion.
Devil's claw seems promising, but more studies to determine long-term effectiveness and long-term safety should be conducted before it is recommended as a treatment for osteoarthritis.
Wikipedia attributes mostly anti-inflammatory pain relief to devils claw for knee and hip joints.
Over time or as a result of injury, cartilage can become damaged or abnormal, leading to joint pain. Some people take a supplement, shark cartilage, to relieve aching joints, the theory being that adding cartilage to the diet can help rebuild cartilage in joints. However, scientific evidence about shark cartilage's benefits for this purpose are lacking.
Shark cartilage is generally safe to take. However, one person who took this supplement suffered from liver inflammation, which went away after he stopped taking it, according to NYU Langone Medical Center. Do not take shark cartilage if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or recovering from surgery or a heart attack, advises the University of Maryland Medical Center.
The last disclaimer is very common, I have read this one on pretty much any supplement I checked.
Green lipped sea mussel
Quite a lot of fans, one writing e.g.
it a very specific salt water (not fresh water) mussel native to Austrialian salt water and being cleanly raised specifically for use in the treatment of arthritis and other joint disorders. Wonderful stuff.
and is promoted by e.g. Xtend-life.com as 'miracle food':
Could the green-lipped/greensh* * l mussel - unique to the waters of New Zealand - be considered a miracle food? Well, according to some marketers, yes it can! Why? Because they believe that Maoris (New Zealands indigenous people) never get arthritis or aches and pains because a large part of their diet is made up of green-lipped mussels and seafood.
The discoverer of the green lipped mussel, the so called mussel man, John Croft does seem likeable and believable to me, when he.
As a natural product it supposedly has only minor side effects, can however cause liver problems in rare cases.
Wikipedia adds caution:
Studies have found that Perna canalicula inhibits the 5-lipoxygenase pathway, which leads to the formation of leukotrienes. Many of the products of these pathways have inflammation-supporting properties. However, a systematic review of current scientific research on supplementation with Green-lipped mussel suggests a lack of compelling evidence for its use in humans with inflammation associated arthritis.
This advertisment claims green-lipped mussel has more than just anti-inflammatory properties:
A dietary supplement to support proper connective tissue and joint functions. Sea Mussel is pure, freeze-dried Green-Lipped Mussel (Perna canaliculus) an edible special of shellfish from New Zealand. Its a rich source of amino acids, protein, naturally chelated minerals and glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) including chondroitin -4- and -6- sulfates. GAGs make up the core of all connective tissue. Sea Mussel supports the health, comfort, flexibility and hydration of synovial fluid and connective tissues including joints, ligaments, tendons, cartilage and intervertebral discs.
Research over the past 20 years shows that the perna mussel contains a combination of natural components that benefit joint dysfunction, which isolated components do not provide.
Some read this as
Further studies have shown that this unique sh* * l fish is a rich natural source of Omega 3 fatty acids and naturally contains Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulphate.
All four studies assessed GLM as an adjunctive treatment to conventional medication for a clinically relevant time in mild to moderate OA. All trials reported clinical benefits in the GLM treatment group but the findings from two studies cannot be included in this review because of possible un-blinding and inappropriate statistical analysis. The data from the two more rigorous trials, in conjunction with our re-analysis of original data suggests that GLM may be superior to placebo for the treatment of mild to moderate OA. As a credible biological mechanism exists for this treatment, further rigorous investigations are required to assess efficacy and optimal dosage.
corroborated by this other study.
From what I read some people have observed positive joint effects in their hurting dogs giving them green lipped mussels. Animals are susceptible to conditioning not placebo effects.
Of course there are also critical voices:
Green-lipped mussel has been around for several decades and has a handful of studies showing that it has anti-inflammatory properties and may help improve pain in mild to moderate osteoarthritis. Some preliminary test results show that its main biologic activity is to reduce lipoxygenase activity, possibly reduce COX2 activity, and reduce some inflammatory cytokines such as TNFa. However, there are numerous nutrients with proven human clinical trials, which cost far less and have much better studies, that do the same thing (5-Loxin, curcumin, and quercetin to name a few).
I dont have a problem with anyone who takes green-lipped mussel for inflammation and likes the result. If something works for you, great. Personally, I have seen consistent improvement for less cost with much better studied and documented nutrients.
What I do have a problem with is green-lipped muscle being promoted as a superior omega 3 supplement, claiming to be hundreds of times more potent than fish oil and therefore fish oil being obsolete as a dietary supplement translation: buy green-lipped muscle and not fish oil.
The most critical and negative discussion I found on this topic is in German. Basically, it says
- Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) included in e.g. green lipped mussels powder are indigestible by humans and thus don't help to rebuild joint synovial fluid more than any other stuff you digest. GAGs are encymatically broken up into glucose and amino acids before being absorbed by your intestines
- Promotions for green lipped mussels are exaggerated without any scientific basis. When you have chronic pain, you should see a doctor before taking supplements on your own
- Side effects may be allergic reactions, temporary severe pain and tingling in parts of your body that are not affected by arthritis, diarrhea, indigestion and mild constipation. The smell of the mussel powder can cause nausea
- A study from 2006 is cited were it was shown that 1583 patients taking glucosamine and chronroitin didn't show any improvement over the placebo group. All studies showing positive effects are said to be paid by the manufacturers
- As recently reported in the media it is also written that supplements may include heavy metal waste like cadium (e.g. poison in the mussels) and may eventually lead to death
Regarding heavy metals in green lipped mussels, I didn't find any corroberating evidence showing any risk by todays standards. A study from 2008 funded by the Malaysian Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation concluded:
From the human public health point of view, these results seem to show no possibility of acute toxicities of Cu, Cd, Pb and Zn if the edidble mussels are consumed by human.
The New Zealand Greensh* * l mussel industry operates within some of the strictest quality standards in the world. Both the mussels and seawater around the farms are tested for biotoxins, bacteria, and heavy metals. The water quality is constantly monitored with tests carried out to the standards set by the U.S Food and Drug Administration, European Union, and NZ Food Safety Authority. The standards are in place to meet the increasing global demand for safe and healthy seafood products. The Resource Management Act 1991 and Fisheries Act 1996 have been put in place by the New Zealand government to mitigate the environmental effects of aquaculture in New Zealand. New Zealands high aquaculture standards have been recognized by the International Conservation Organisation Blue Ocean Institute, which ranked New Zealand Greensh* * l mussels as one of the top two eco-friendly seafoods in the world.
So there you have it. Lots of mixed, both positive as well as negative press. Now on to the supplements.
There are tons of supplements out there if you search for the listed ingredients. If you e.g. search for supplements including glucosamine on the supposedly well respected company vitabase.com it does get kinda ridiculous. They offer a supplement including only glucosamine. a supplement including glucosamine, chrondroitin, Vitamin C with manganese and bromelain on top, a supplement including glucosamine, chrondroitin and MSM only. The last one seemingly very popular with its own video. Finally they got a "super joint formula" including glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, shark cartilage, and green-lipped sea mussel and 18 other nutrients including devils claw, niacinamide and vitamin B12 and E. If this last one doesn't help what else possibly could?
While there are manufactures combining most of the major ingredients with Vitam B12 like DrMaxPowers, I suggest getting this stuff seperately e.g. from Vitabase.
In general it seems wise to get single supplements containing only one of those ingredients and go from there. If you don't do isolated testing how will you ever know what helps?
One thing is certain: Had any of these supplements passed clinical, double-blind, scientifically rigorous trials, they would be classified as drugs. Still, maybe some of the supplements do help some people on a physiological level?
If anyone wants to try / or has tried this stuff, I'd be happy to hear about your learnings. Do any of these supplements help ease joint pressure / burning / crack desire (for us OCD-like not yet with arthritis diagnosed people), is all the negativity a conspiracy by the mighty pharma industry to keep us sick buying their expensive stuff or is this all just a placebo, a scam, a hoax / ploy to get our money, capitalizing on our desperation, wasting our time and hope?
My own experiment
By my own now updated research, I'm intrigued enough by both green lipped mussels and MSM to give these new (well, I just learned about them) supplements a shot. As a very sceptical person this is very unlike me… It is probably all bull, I guess I am desperate enough. I only do this because it is a very affordable experiment, where the chances greatly outweight the risks, what harm can come from one honest try?
I will get capsules / concentrated powder of both supplements for my own testing. I will start with green lipped sea mussels. Depending on the outcome of the GLM tests, I will continue with MSM.
In a few months I will know more, then I will update this thread.